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New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

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DMcDonald

Participant

Posts: 11

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:14 am

Post Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:22 pm

New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi All,

I'm curious to know if anyone has navigated an upgrade of a Helios and Hyperion system to windows10 and/or new helios-hyperion software? If so can you share your experiences/any teething issues etc?

We've got a hard deadline to have our system up to spec (onto windows 10) by the end of November or we're geting cut off from the network...then it'll be fun transferring IMD/MCD files!

Sadly Fluidigm's strategy with us has been that of an ostrich and have gone to radio silence so any advice is much appreciated.

Best wishes,
David
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mleipold

Guru

Posts: 2086

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:30 pm

Location: Stanford HIMC, CA, USA

Post Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi David,

I *just* found out this week from Fluidigm that SW7.0 in a Win10 environment will require a computer tower upgrade. SW7.0 in Win7 is fine on the current tower, but they're claiming that the tower can't handle Win10 for some reason.

"- Want to keep the current windows OS and have new software
Download the software from our website
Install through installer
Check instrument performance through tuning/beads

- Want to upgrade to windows 10 OS and have new software
Ver 7.0 would need to be installed on the old computer (to make the conf files compatible 6.7 conf files-> 7.0 conf files)
New computer would be shipped to you
Engineer would transfer the newly created 7.0 conf files from old computer to windows 10 computer.
Engineer checks instrument for performance through tuning/beads
Engineer returns old computer to Fluidigm."


Even worse: I'm also told that, unlike a computer tower crash/dying, this "upgrade" sort of computer tower replacement is *NOT* covered by *any* of the service contracts, not even the highest Premium Plus. I haven't yet received a quote from Fluidigm about the price of the Win10-compliant tower: I would strongly encourage anyone who's interested in Win10 to contact their FAS and/or Sales to get a quote for that!


Mike
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DMcDonald

Participant

Posts: 11

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:14 am

Post Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:33 pm

Re: New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply with the info you've been given. Fluidigm have also (finally) been in touch this week to give a similar line to us...except with a price:

Want to keep your old PC: £18000!!!! Want to part ex £8000!!!!

And this is with a PC that we got less than two years ago with our hyperion system, different to what was supplied with the Helios; It is beyond belief that this system is not windows 10 compatible and any development of software that wouldn't work on that platform and with our very recent and expensive hardware, I think shows a real disregard for their customers relationships to make a quick buck. I believe this is also very short-sighted as if these instruments are removed from the network due to financial constraints of our institutions then remote support options will cease and it will result in a dramatic increase in the need for on-site service visits.

So you may be right about the service contracts not covering the upgrades, however, we instructed our legal and procurement teams to look into our terms and conditions after being asked to pay for this and it was actually part of our EU tender and the terms and conditions of the sale for our system that these upgrades are included and Fluidigm have been instructed to honour this.

I would strongly encourage everyone to take a close look at their terms and conditions of the sale before agreeing to pay for an upgrade.


Hopefully this helps others from being fleeced and it'd be good to hear of others experiences as this progresses,

Best wishes,
David
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EHaasDFCI

Contributor

Posts: 24

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:34 pm

Post Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:52 pm

Re: New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi David,

I'm intrigued to see how this works out for you. I agree with you that the pricing for components needed to keep operators operating is absurd at times. I have voiced my concerns on this very issue to multiple people at Fluidigm and am interested to see others in the community with the same thoughts and feelings. This is a very useful technology, but the costs are still too high for many people that could benefit from using it. Who knows what sorts of insights and discoveries could be made if the technology was more affordable! (not to mention, the cheaper the tech is, the more people will use it, and thus more product will be sold in the long run)...

Good Luck!
Eric
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jimbomahoney

Master

Posts: 73

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:21 am

Post Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:05 am

Re: New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi all,

As an ex-service engineer for a microscopy company, we took the stance of only allowing certain PCs to be used with our systems. Very similar to this situation, it was understandably met with resistance from customers - many of whom were under obligations from the IT departments to only allow certain PCs themselves.

In our case, this was due to the semi and sometimes fully proprietary USB / PCI / PCIe devices we were using. The number of problems we had on earlier systems where customers would use their own PC caused us, and them, no end of headaches. In addition, given the cost of the microscopy system vs. the PC, it was viewed as a relatively minor expense for trouble-free operation.

I suspect the same is true in Fluidigm's case, so I have a certain amount of sympathy.

However, "PC not compatible" is not a sufficient explanation in my opinion.

I'd like to know what exactly it is about the PC that isn't compatible. For example, HP themselves seem to vouch that it's OK:

https://support.hp.com/za-en/drivers/se ... on/6978842

https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/c05195282

Further, the digitiser also seems to be supported under Win 10:

https://www.alazartech.com/Products/ATS9870_v_1_6E.pdf

As well as the PCIe UART device:

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co ... ?q=PNP0501

The LSI RAID controller also seems to be OK (and that's from an older model Z820 workstation):

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Business- ... -p/6071375

Again, I'm keen to stress that I sympathise with Fluidigm to a certain extent - I just want to understand:

1) What exactly doesn't work under Windows 10?
2) What happens if the current PC is upgraded to Windows 10?
3) How does this affect any warranty?

I'm discussing this with my local Fluidigm team, but I would encourage them to explain in as much detail as they can about why a PC that was purchased ~1 year ago (when it was already known that Windows 7 support was entering EOL) needs to be changed.
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mleipold

Guru

Posts: 2086

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:30 pm

Location: Stanford HIMC, CA, USA

Post Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: New Hyperion Software and Windows 10 upgrades

Hi David,

Just wanted to give some feedback.

After paying for the new towers, both of my Helios instruments are now running SW7.0 on the new Win10 towers. After 2 weeks, so far, so good: the suspension mode acquisition interface is basically identical to the SW6.7 interface. We don't have a Hyperion, so I can't comment on how that has changed (though see IMC forum discussion thread here: https://imc-forum.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1684). Additionally, the file nomenclature in the SW7.0 FCS files is the same as SW6.7: in other words, FlowJo templates built on SW6.7 recognize SW7.0, etc.

Our IT people are really happy that we can now encrypt: we have BigFix running on the towers (as we were able to with the Win7 SW6.7), but in addition, there's now the BitLocker going too. So far, no issues.


The only issue we've had so far is a weird one: during installation, we discovered that one tower was fine, but the other tower would not wake up if it ever went to Sleep. We had to do a hard restart (power button on the front of the tower). This isn't a major deal, as you can switch settings to never let it go to Sleep (in fact, that was the way the tower initially came). Having the screen blank out or screen saver turn on is fine, just don't put it to Sleep!

Fluidigm is now aware of the issue, and is investigating (my engineer found some evidence online that this may be a Win10 issue rather than a Fluidigm software issue).


Mike

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